Front, Back or both???

[Sin Harvest]

I'm not sure about the course in Saskatchewan, but the motorcycle safety course I took in Ontario spent a solid day on emergency braking drills. Some of the instructors here I'm sure could clarify on this. Stasher made a very good point. Take the safety course if you haven't already done so, and find an out of the way parking lot and practice. Just asking the question is the first place shows that you are taking a very smart attitude towards learning the skill of riding.

[Shawn]

The saftey course here teaches use of the rear break for slow speed control while working with the clutch friction point.. Emergency breaking is also taught in the Sask. course and they teach you to use both breaks....

[TGSXR]

break
–verb (used with object)
1. to smash, split, or divide into parts violently; reduce to pieces or fragments: He broke a vase.
–noun
2. an act or instance of breaking; disruption or separation of parts; fracture; rupture: There was a break in the window.



brake
–noun
   1. a device for slowing or stopping a vehicle or other moving mechanism by the absorption or transfer of the energy of momentum, usually by means of friction.
–verb (used with object)
        2. to slow or stop by means of or as if by means of a brake.


[/OCD grammar nazi]

[Shawn]

haha.. opps...  thanks for the correction.

[Tweak2010]

I'm not sure about the course in Saskatchewan, but the motorcycle safety course I took in Ontario spent a solid day on emergency braking drills. Some of the instructors here I'm sure could clarify on this. Stasher made a very good point. Take the safety course if you haven't already done so, and find an out of the way parking lot and practice. Just asking the question is the first place shows that you are taking a very smart attitude towards learning the skill of riding.

i wanna learn to ride saftely and i know people have died from it...hoodie was a good buddy of mine working at chevrolet(as much as his accident was sledding related) it still screams becareful to me.....you will prolly never ever see me stunting or riding stupid or anything along those lines...

[cowboyrt]

The saftey course here teaches use of the rear break for slow speed control while working with the clutch friction point.. Emergency breaking is also taught in the Sask. course and they teach you to use both breaks....

I have issues with people using your clutch for braking.  Can anyone explain exactly how the safety course teaches that.  Honestly (WARNING - OPINION ON THE WAY) I've heard a few things the safety course teaches that I have issues with - can someone educate me?  

[T-bar]

I have issues with people using your clutch for braking.  Can anyone explain exactly how the safety course teaches that.  Honestly (WARNING - OPINION ON THE WAY) I've heard a few things the safety course teaches that I have issues with - can someone educate me? 

I'd like to be subtle here, but... you interpreted that completely wrong. lol

it's not using the clutch for braking.  Its using high engine RPM to stabilize the bike at low speed.  The rest just follows from that.

You know how a gyroscope won't fall over when it's spinning? well your bike has 3 gyros: 2 wheels and a motor. at high speed, all 3 turn fast and keep the bike stable.  At low speed, they don't.  Unless you rev your engine high, but you can't go slow while revving high unless you slip your clutch and apply your brakes at the same time.  The rear brake is the best for this because it acts on the same wheel as the driving force, so there's no chance of accidental burnouts that end badly.

Make sense now? lol

[cowboyrt]

can someone educate me? 

Thanks man - thats what I was looking for lol

[BuellThumper]

You know how a gyroscope won't fall over when it's spinning? well your bike has 3 gyros: 2 wheels and a motor. at high speed, all 3 turn fast and keep the bike stable. 

Is this actually true??

 I've never heard of the engine being considered a gyro that helps stabilize a bike. I understand where the theory may come from, but engine bits spin in all sorts of directions and I would have thought all that commotion would neutralize any possible benefit

[cowboyrt]

i think  this shuold be in the magnitism and resistance thread lol

[Sin Harvest]

Simply, yes it's true.

Though if you really want to get geeky, if the engine is a boxer configuration with horizontally opposed  pistons the righting moment of the gyroscope is disadvantageous on the bike and makes it want to fall over/side slip. And then you could get mega geeky and say that whatever force you put on that gyro will be transferred 90 degrees from the axis of rotation...but basically true or not there's been boxer equipped bikes fall over on oily pavement with the rider at a stop light and rev'ed the engine in neutral or with the clutch disengaged. Oooowwwwwweeeeoooo.

[BuellThumper]

Though if you really want to get geeky, if the engine is a boxer configuration with horizontally opposed  pistons the righting moment of the gyroscope is disadvantageous on the bike and makes it want to fall over/side slip. And then you could get mega geeky and say that whatever force you put on that gyro will be transferred 90 degrees from the axis of rotation...but basically true or not there's been boxer equipped bikes fall over on oily pavement with the rider at a stop light and rev'ed the engine in neutral or with the clutch disengaged.

I thought a gyro resisted force at a 90 degree angle from the axis of rotation, not transfered the force at a 90 degree angle.

The only reason a boxer would want to side slip is maybe torque acting on the bike making it want to turn with the rotation of the crank which I highly doubt would have enough force to twist a bike off vertical oily road or not

[Invigor]

To be honest with you, I couldn't even tell you how I brake, or how much I use on the front of back. It's so automatic I don't even pay attention.  Best thing to do is get used to your brakes by practicing emergency braking as often and safely as possible. This way since you've been practicing enough, it will just be a knee jerk reaction for you when the time comes that you actually need it. You need to know the limits of yourself and your machine before you achieve maximum stopping capability. If you don't know either, take your bike out to 3 flags, you'll learn in a hurry where your limits are. But at the same time, don't forget your tires will be much warmer after a few laps around the course than they will ever get on the street, so it's good to know the limits of your traction on the street.  So when YOU KNOW IT IS SAFE TO DO SO, try braking as hard as you're comfortable with, then next time try a little harder. If your tire locks up or starts chirping, you know you're at the limit, it's all up to you to get it built into your brain so you can recall it instantly when you really need it. 

[redline]

Your front brake on a modern sportbike is responsible for more that 70% of the braking force, it's more like 90-100%.  If your braking near the limit of the bikes capabilities the back end will want to come around, causing the bike to slide sideways; this will worsen if the back brake is over applied.  The rear brake may be used at high speed to settle the chassis before going into a corner, helping to keep the bike flat but that will also effect bikes ability to turn into a corner.

When I race the rear brake is rarely touched, when I'm on the street it's used for slower speeds with the front but never on it's own. 

BTW: trail braking is braking into the corner up to the apex with the brake pressure decreasing until you nearly hit the apex, it's not about using the rear brakes.

[Sin Harvest]

Maybe my wording is kind of screwy, it's called gyroscopic precession, and admittedly I only briefly touched on it when I was learning about rotor heads on helicopters. To make the helicopter's “disk” tilt to one side, you need to add or remove lift by changing the pitch of the blades travelling 90 degrees off from where you want the disk to tilt. Freaky stuff. Don't ask me why it does that, I just need to know that it does. Maybe I should stop hijacking this thread though...maybe I should write another one titled “Losers like me who think about obscure nerdy things”

As for the boxer thing, I've ran into afew people who claimed it happend to them. Maybe they were pulling my chain?